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Another log [Jan. 24th, 2012|09:36 am]
This is just for another community to see. Oddly enough this guy probably could have "tricked" me into doing a commission for him if he didn't feel the need to argue about copyright.

Session Start (marie_the_kazegal4:triggerespeon): Fri Sep 30 20:07:02 2011 -0400
[20:07] triggerespeon: hi
[20:07] Marie: uh, hi
[20:07] triggerespeon: how much for a whirled av that i can sell
[20:07] Marie: if I make you a whirled avatar I would not allow you to resell it unless you attribute
[20:07] Marie: and even then I would make the base public for everyone
[20:08] triggerespeon: What if it's a species I MADE?
[20:08] Marie: Well hypothetically since I made the avatar myself I would have copyright to it
[20:08] Marie: as all artwork is copyright to the artist
[20:09] triggerespeon: Not the Species.
[20:09] Marie: you can't copyright a species
[20:09] triggerespeon: Yes you can.
[20:09] Marie: no you can't. Designs are not copyrightable
[20:09] triggerespeon: Welp, Better use Discord's Design in my project then! Hurp.
[20:10] Marie: anyways, I would hold copyright and the right towards how it's used. If you want to make it a private avatar that's fine, but if you want to sell it I would require attribution
[20:11] triggerespeon: So Nintendo doesn't own the design to Mario and they're stuff and Sega surely doesn't own the rights to sonic and amy? You know, I could..Color Sonic RED and use it? Are you seriously thinking this?
[20:12] Marie: characters like Sonic and Mario are trademarked
[20:13] Marie: A species design however is not... because then it'd get ridiculous. Someone came up with a species being a cat with horns and could you imagine charging royalties each time someone draws a cat with horns?
[20:13] Marie: same with character designs
[20:13] triggerespeon: Ok, So. You can take am Emo Kid, Turn it grey give it orange orange and trademark that as a species?
[20:14] Marie: trademarking is different from copyrighting.
[20:14] triggerespeon: Ok, so I own the trademark to mine.
[20:14] Marie: "A trademark, trade mark, or trade-mark[1] is a distinctive sign or indicator used by an individual, business organization, or other legal entity to identify that the products or services to consumers with which the trademark appears originate from a unique source, and to distinguish its products or services from those of other entities."
[20:14] Marie: trademarks would be like the olympics rings design or the mickey mouse symbol/logo
[20:14] Marie: the difference is these are being used to market a good
[20:15] Marie: what is your species anyways? You can't just declare it trademarked. You have to register a trademark
[20:15] triggerespeon: Ok then, How does blizzard own their designs? How do you own the Chitten? How does say..Runic own the Varkolyn? How does 2K own the Little Sisters?
[20:16] Marie: me owning the chitten would be ridiculous. I am not the first person to come up with the idea of cats with wings. That's why it would be silly for me to own it.
[20:16] Marie: I can't just charge someone if they make cat-birds
[20:16] triggerespeon: Blizzard wasn't the first for owlbears. So.
[20:16] Marie: they are probably claiming copyright to the rendering/model
[20:16] Marie: and not the actual owlbear since it's a D&D monster
[20:17] triggerespeon: Exactly. Thus I can trademark my stuff.
[20:17] Marie: what's this species though
[20:17] triggerespeon: Nunya.
[20:17] Marie: I meant the distinguishing features
[20:17] triggerespeon: I say:
[20:17] Marie: and what does this race -look- like
[20:18] Marie: "How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work. "
[20:18] Marie: a species counts as a concept/idea
[20:18] Marie: (Link: http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html)http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html
[20:18] triggerespeon: Do you know who Chris-Chan is?
[20:19] triggerespeon: actually h/o
[20:19] triggerespeon: Copyrights are granted automatically, and copyright registrations are only an official assertion that a specific work has been created at a specific date by the registrant; the registrations are only needed when suing another party for copyright infringement
[20:20] Marie: they are granted for things like artwork, music, or writing
[20:20] Marie: but an IDEA like a species is not something you can copyright
[20:20] Marie: Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something.
[20:20] Marie: my idea: chittens being cat-birds is not protected by copyright
[20:21] triggerespeon: Ok, How do I use them then? Say someone like a friend used them in an book.
[20:21] Marie: the book itself would be copyrighted but not the ideas in it exactly. The text itself it copyrighted
[20:21] Marie: the general outline/story of the book could possibly be copyrighted too but the idea itself can't be
[20:22] Marie: for example, I believe someone tried to sue a game maker for making a game about zombies at the mall... but that wasn't something one could copyright
[20:22] triggerespeon: this is like saying moogles are not copyrightable.
[20:22] Marie: (Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Rising#Legal_issues)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Rising#Legal_issues
[20:22] triggerespeon: Yes I read about that.
[20:23] Marie: well I could make a puffball with wings, or a teddy bear with wings and sony couldn't sue me because they're like moogles
[20:23] Marie: but if I was to trace their artwork I'd be infringing on their copyright
[20:23] triggerespeon: Don't you mean Square..or is it Enix? I don't know what portion owns them.
[20:23] Marie: copyright does not protect ideas
[20:23] Marie: I call them Squeenix
[20:23] triggerespeon: Why?
[20:23] Marie: because it sounds funny
[20:24] triggerespeon: I call them Fail. Enix had better games. But, Regardless. This doesn't make my ideas bad. I mean It's not like I took two copyrighted characters that already existed and combined them into one then hijacked my own comics and besides THAT I have a completly original species that doesn't look like anything that already exists.
[20:24] Marie: anyways, for all I know your nunya species could be entirely like another species
[20:25] Marie: or similar enough
[20:25] Marie: is there even artwork of this species?
[20:25] triggerespeon: I bought the design.. off Someone FOR THOSE. But I still o- Yes!
[20:25] Marie: even if you bought it it doesn't make it yours
[20:26] triggerespeon: how
[20:26] Marie: because it doesn't?
[20:26] triggerespeon: It's not like she wanted them anymore anyways. They look more original then Crux or something.
[20:26] Marie: but is there artwork of it?
[20:27] triggerespeon: yes
[20:27] Marie: If I'm going to make an avatar of this for a commission I might as well see
[20:27] triggerespeon: No, You're going to steal it to prove a point.
[20:28] Marie: not really
[20:29] triggerespeon: Not really..As in..20% Really. What I want to know And none of this trolling I am simply confused now.. How is buying a design..not making it mine? She sold it to me. It's mine. It's kinda like how uh..Black Isles? Sold the fallout license to Bethesda. Bethesda owns it now.
[20:30] Marie: it's mostly because you can't copyright a design to begin with. Ideas can't be copyrighted. It's like if I decided to draw a race of stripey-cats with horns to someone and then they claimed that no one else could draw anything like that because they "own" the race
[20:30] Marie: people have made races out of everything. I made the chittens but it's not something I could protect with copyright because they're just wing-brids
[20:30] Marie: in a harpy form
[20:31] Marie: and it'd be unfair to tell people that I own copyright and therefore are not allowed to use it
[20:32] triggerespeon: but ..what I bought doesn't look like anything. people were drawing things like crux before Malluch even made them.
[20:32] Marie: without seeing your work I can't make that judgement. It also doesn't change the fact that it's a design
[20:33] Marie: it's an *idea*
[20:33] triggerespeon: It's an idea I plan to use.
[20:33] triggerespeon: So what now I can't use it?
[20:33] Marie: You can use it but you can't hold copyright to the species. You can hold copyright to your artwork, your writing, your music
[20:33] Marie: copyright laws are more supposed to protect creations than ideas
[20:34] triggerespeon: Then again it's like saying blizzard owns MMORPGs like it..Dispite Everquest coming before it. Ok, Wait. What's the difference between Creation and Idea?
[20:34] Marie: a creation is something in a fixed form. That would be like the song, or the lyrics used for the song.
[20:35] Marie: the idea in the song however couldn't be copyrighted... like if someone sings about his wife he can't hold copyright to singing about wives
[20:35] triggerespeon: But I created the Specie's World.
[20:35] Marie: so when you draw something you don't own the species but you own the drawing
[20:35] Marie: "Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are
fixed in a tangible form of expression."
[20:36] Marie: not protected by copyright: ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts,
principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a
description, explanation, or illustration
[20:36] triggerespeon: Well, Will BE. Soon...Whenever FRIEND get's off his ass and writes.
[20:36] Marie: the writing would be under copyright but not the ideas itself... and like I said if you could copyright species it would get RIDICULOUS because everyone's made a species
[20:37] triggerespeon: I've made many. ):
[20:37] Marie: and if someone decided to copy and paste what you wrote it'd be considered both copyright infringement and plagiarism
[20:39] triggerespeon: One of my species is ..owlbears..small owlbears. :( But I mean isn't it what you do with a species that makes it original?
[20:40] Marie: I'm not sure if you could call one entirely original. The thought that you think I'd be owning chittens, for example
[20:41] triggerespeon: but they are yours.
[20:42] Marie: they are just my like of harpies mashed up with cat ears
[20:42] Marie: with a touch of my boyfriend's race which are just humanoids with simplified faces
[20:42] triggerespeon: But, They are yours. You make money off them.
[20:42] Marie: I make money selling artwork of them
[20:42] Marie: I couldn't go to someone and say "hey, want to buy the idea of harpies with cat ears?"
[20:42] Marie: they'd be like "wtf? no"
[20:43] Marie: what people are buying are my animations or my artwork itself
[20:43] Marie: without the animation or art it would be an idea and I doubt someone would pay me a cent for that
[20:44] triggerespeon: I would.
[20:44] Marie: heh, then I will like sell you the chittens for like $5
except I could still draw them.. and everyone else could make one of their own if they wanted. There'd be no point to it
[20:45] Marie: and someone could come up with a harpy/cat variation and say it's theirs without ever having seen our work
[20:46] triggerespeon: But what about the design X sold me then? there is nothing that looks like the, And the chitten are original because of the way they look. There is nothing that looks like them.
[20:46] Marie: they're not very original as I saw. I just slapped some parts on a harpy that I liked
[20:46] Marie: and I still can't know if your claim of originality with the nunya is true
[20:46] Marie: I'm just saying that someone could copy the design and you could not sue over it
[20:47] Marie: you can call it yours in concept but by law it's not copyrightable
[20:48] triggerespeon: But, The way you draw them is what makes them original.
[20:48] Marie: you could consider them original but the idea is not something I can own. I can own the artwork that I drew
[20:49] triggerespeon: What about the Characters?
[20:49] triggerespeon: Named Personalities?
[20:49] Marie: actually you can't copyright names
[20:49] Marie: I also don't think you can copyright a personality because that would be a little overboard
[20:49] Marie: (especially the cliche ones)
[20:50] Marie: I'm not as sure about a character but I don't think you can copyright it either. You can call someone out for stealing your character as plagiarism but if I recall plagiarism is not a matter of law
[20:50] Marie: plagiarism is not a crime but it can damage your reputation if you plagiarize other people's ideas
[20:51] Marie: as in it could ruin what people think of you or your business
[20:51] Marie: so you could say "well so and so is stealing my race" and that could damage what people think of that person but you can't bring them to court and sue
[20:51] triggerespeon: Notch took infinmers idea of building with squares and made Minecraft. ..He also combined ideas of Wurm. A game he worked on but didn't own.
[20:51] Marie: could you imagine what it'd be like if someone tried to copyright the idea of a FPS game?
[20:52] triggerespeon: Chaos.
[20:52] Marie: and I suddenly want to draw now so I think I'm going to doodle some on the tablet
[20:52] Marie: maybe I'll color a piece
[20:52] triggerespeon: But, This doesn't mean my ideas or your chitten are bad.
[20:53] Marie: I'm not saying it's bad but my chittens are not very original. Pretty much all my races are a conglomeration of things I like
[20:53] Marie: and my main character, Wuvvums, is just a girl with horns
[20:53] triggerespeon: Same, But you could make a game using the chitten and such.
[20:54] Marie: I don't feel like making a game though
[20:55] triggerespeon: I would. I mean I cna't draw..Yet or use flash..yet. But I would.
[20:55] Marie: anyone can do it, really. It's a matter of persistance
[20:55] Marie: oh, and coding
[20:56] Marie: I could draw or animate 8 ways but if i don't know a shred of code then I am not making a game
[20:56] Marie: oh, and if you want to see one of the cooler art/game mashups you should see skull girls
[20:57] Marie: (Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayrRNSqRr1Q&feature=related)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayrRNSqRr1Q&feature=related no sprites.. just all artwork
[20:57] Marie: that is frame by frame drawings
[21:01] triggerespeon: Well it looks great. But I'm not really into fighters..unless it's soul calibur
[21:03] Marie: I must admit though I like frame by frame animations more than tweens, even if tweens are easier work
[21:07] Marie: I think I might not actually draw for now since it's thundering and it might risk a power outage
[21:07] triggerespeon: How much for an Av then.
[21:11] Marie: depends on what you want to go for. I think I could do the base (default state and walk cycle) for like 20 bucks
[21:12] triggerespeon: for like..other actions? what would that run?
[21:12] Marie: depends on the complexity, really
[21:12] Marie: like name an idea for an action. May be easy or it may be hard
[21:16] triggerespeon: I should plan this out instead of..just naming an idea
[21:17] Marie: well what do you want to do with it? Make some money?
[21:17] Marie: or just have a project for the sake of having a project?
[21:18] triggerespeon: Not really. I really like my species. They're cute.
[21:20] Marie: you might not need to worry too much
[21:24] triggerespeon: Sorame wants to make everything original.
[21:24] Marie: Sorame's a crazy guy. He's also a stalker.
[21:25] Marie: Im ust have blocked him on like 8 of his accounts by now
[21:29] triggerespeon: He's made me paranoid..To make all my stuff original. :|
[21:30] triggerespeon: I mean, I guess my stuff isn't..original prese..But it's mine and I like it.
[21:30] Marie: I remember... he got upset because apparently my race was liked more than his
[21:30] Marie: and I was like... his is cats with stars on them and mine are cats with wings
[21:30] Marie: why the hell would he get jealous over which is more liked?
[21:31] Marie: and then he like... proclaimed that he would steal my artwork
[21:31] Marie: and then wrote a story about how he killed my chars
[21:31] Marie: with his gunslinger that was wielding a crossbow
[21:32] Marie: like why would a gunslinger have a crossbow?
[21:32] triggerespeon: Isn't that a Ranger instead of a Gunslinger?
[21:32] Marie: yeah
[21:32] triggerespeon: Or Hunter?
[21:32] Marie: gunslingers like... use guns
[21:32] Marie: an archer
[21:33] Marie: but anyways, he's pretty upset that I won't talk to him and I don't really want to
[21:34] triggerespeon: Are you sure that's Sorame? All I remember from him is GNOLLS ARE NOT ORIGINAL!111!!.
[21:34] Marie: oh yes, he was so obsessive about gnolls
[21:34] Marie: I think gnolls are his fetish
[21:35] Marie: oh, you should bring up toothpaste to him
[21:35] Marie: like your favorite toothpaste
[21:35] triggerespeon: He didn't want to use them because they were overused despite them being unique is the way you use them, Not using them. Colgate!
[21:36] Marie: that's because he's a bit of a tool
[21:36] Marie: I mean, I like harpies and I don't care how many people use harpies
[21:37] Marie: sometimes I think I like drawing regular races than ones I made up
[21:37] Marie: like I love drawing orcs
[21:37] triggerespeon: I think if I did something with my species like you did with Chitten people would like them. I mean, How did Crux or Sergal get liked? people bought them and used them. Kinda like whirled.
[21:38] Marie: i never saw the crux
[21:38] Marie: to be honest I think it boils down to aesthetic
[21:38] Marie: lemme think.. I like drawing my wow chars more than my original races actually
[21:38] Marie: I dunno, maybe that's just me. I'm not concerned about originality
[21:38] Marie: I just like how my drawings come out in the end
[21:46] Marie: well the thundering stopped so I think I will draw after all
Session Close (triggerespeon): Fri Sep 30 21:47:18 2011 -0400

Session Start (marie_the_kazegal4:triggerespeon): Fri Sep 30 21:48:53 2011 -0400
[21:48] triggerespeon: I am. I mean..Blizz rips off stuff to but lol
Session Close (triggerespeon): Fri Sep 30 21:49:58 2011 -0400

Session Start (marie_the_kazegal4:triggerespeon): Wed Jan 11 23:38:31 2012 -0500
[23:38] triggerespeon: Hi! Who cares if I'm Nura? That was..Years ago. You need money for college, Well. Here I am wanting to commission you. I must ask, What does it matter who I am if I have the money to back me up? Also, Wasn't exactly hiding the fact that I am that. Also names Xenard, Hi! I'm a Ghoul, I would like to commission you for a Ghoul avatar.
[23:39] Marie: No.
Session Close (triggerespeon): Wed Jan 11 23:39:07 2012 -0500
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Text Dump [Nov. 9th, 2009|09:19 am]
Doesn't really concern anyone unless they're from whirled, even then- read from the bottom up.

Read from the bottom upCollapse )
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The conversation with Rouge, the art thief (concerning something on whirled only) [Jul. 13th, 2009|04:24 pm]
Rouge the Bat™
on Today at 12:01am

Lately I've been noticing a lot of avys that should DIE. I'm seriously getting sick and tired of looking at them. Theres also a few creators that I dislike as well.

Long ago when I joined Whirled I first noticed the Kawaiis that were made and I loved them. I used to think Gnolls were better but lately Whirled has changed. Everyone has gotten to that base and have tried to "Recolor" the avys. When I joined I even made a small amount of Gnolls and Kawaiis but it was only for Sonic and SSBB characters. I enjoyed it while it lasted and when Kawaiis weren't being overused by noobs so much. I will give a little credit to those that have actually grabbed those bases and added their own actions and states. Same goes for the Kawaiis. And I hate how people try to say they're pro at making avys when all they do is STEAL someone elses base and recolors it.

Gnolls have stopped showing up in the shops lately...Not sure why but it sorta needs to stay out anyway.

Another avy I'm starting to hate seeing are those ugly little Chittens that are nothing but remakes from the original. I mean seriously...they all look the same no matter how big or small they are. You can tell something was ripped from one avy and moved over to make a new one. People are starting to overuse those too. The only person I give props to about those chittens is Meph cause he makes those avys look a hell of a lot better then the original. At least he changes it up a bit.

Eevees are being over used WAY too much too. I'm actually getting sick of looking at recolors. No one even tries to add new states or actions. They're trying to mix Kawaiis with Eevees now too....Come on...Stop while you're ahead.

If you're mad about this post. Oh well. My opinion. Deal with it.

Got any avys you're sick of lookin at? Post your rants here

on Today at 12:26am
Avatars that I am sick of? Well, I could be totally honest. Sprite avatars, mostly because they are actual copyrighted materials owned by a company and people are profiting off of it- and if there are any groups that could take legal action against whirled, it would be companies like Nintendo :/

Whirled should try to cover it's ass when it comes to these matters. At least Cherub can consent to his work being sold, and it wouldn't be viable for him to sue the own company he works for. It just disturbs me to see that stuff get sold.

Oh, and things that are traced. Tracing gets to me for some reason, it's pretty much another spin on copying and stealing. Case in point.
(this is where I posted the picture attached)

Rouge the Bat™
on Today at 12:52am

You think it was traced but it wasn't It's pretty easy to get an image and start from scratch. It's not exact so stfu. No one likes you anyway.

on Today at 12:53am
Hey, if you can call out on the chittens then I am assuming that any avatar is fair game.

Rouge the Bat™
on Today at 1:02am

Like I said It's my opinion. No one even asked you to join in. I'm sure theres more then just me that hate that avy anyway. Learn how to suck it up and accept it. I know how I create my avys so what you think about me...I could care less about. If you were mature enough you'd just let it slide. Grow up.

Marie-Elana wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm just amused at where you say "It's not exact so stfu. No one likes you anyway." and then you say "grow up"

In your first post you asked for open opinions. You also said that if people didn't like your opinion then they would just have to deal with it. Why then is it inherently bad that I have an opinion too? By your logic, shouldn't you just "deal with it?"

Rouge replied- See. Thing is. You're known to piss people off in small form of way but try not to look like it's bad. And I have noticed it and heard from it from people you think are your friends but truely aren't. Sure I had my say eariler and I can get away with it anyway. If you're gonna be here then keep your comments to a minimum. Especially when it comes to me. I don't take to well to certain people. I hear enough from people and I see it.

Marie-Elana wrote:
In the meantime how about you go credit all the people you took art from for your avatars, and say sorry to them individually for taking their art and profiting from it?

This for your inuyasha.
This for your falco.
This for your Ho-oh
This for your espio. (these all had links to the deviations)

Her response-

You're kidding right? Just cause I look at a reference doesnt mean I have to credit someone for working on something I made. Marie. Seriously get out if you're not gonna stay on topic.

Marie-Elana wrote:
Uhhh, even if you eyeballed it you are using someone's art for profit. I can do a side by side on some of these and can see parts that are heavily copied, if not traced.

It's called a "Line Tool" Not too hard to do. It smooths the look of avys. You should use it sometime on your chittens. But again...Stay on topic. You're gonna make me break my own rule by me wasting my typing skills on you.

my response-

I use the line tool as well to trace- the things I trace are my own sketches or my friend's sketches with their permission. It still doesn't mean that you aren't taking the art.

Also I don't see how this is off topic. You asked us what avatars we don't like- I listed traced and stolen avatars and this is just a further elaboration of that topic.

Rouge- No your failing attempt to try to get me to do something I dont even have to is off topic. Thats not opinions. Thats just trying to cause a scene. You've already stated what avys you dont like and we can see that now. Save the conversations to some new people that haven't spoken.

me- You're just making excuses to simply not edit the description and say "Oh by the way, I based this off of this guy's pic [link]"

Rouge-  Sheesh you want me to so bad? Yet I don't have to. Your attempts are failing. And theres plenty of people out there that happen to trace and don't give credit. How about you go to them and jump down their throats instead. You made this situation look so stupid when you could've said that in the first place. You try way too hard. : /

Me- Actually, you not only have to credit, but you need written consent.

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